Buzz Osborne, aka King Buzzo, is too smart for interviews. He’s actually the nexus point of what I like best about metalheads and punk rockers; he’s the well-informed, no gimmick, in your face type of guy that makes words like ‘trends’ and ‘politically correct’ piss their pants (that’s if you believe in the concept of alphabetical animism).
I had the pleasure to diverge from the norms set by touring conventions, namely ‘new album oriented talk’, and to spend some time chatting about anything but formalities with buddy ol’ pal Buzz…
Hi, can I speak with Mr. Buzz Osborne? This is Ralph Elawani I’m calling on behalf of Nomag, in Montreal…
Montreal, where is that located?
West of India…
Isn’t everything located West of India?
That’s a way to look at it. Anyways, I’m pretty sure you’re aware of the procedure, I ask question and you counter-balance the boredom of it all with entertaining answers.
In your wildest dreams, man!
So the record’s been out for a little while now, how many times have you had to talk about that ‘Marines’ intro on the first song and rank the record in comparison with Houdini?
Well, Houdini is a good record; I personally prefer the live version because I feel it’s simply better and more coherent. But I don’t really listen to my own music. I kinda let it have a life of its own. But people don’t tend to focus that much on Houdini now to say tell the truth. Seems like they forget that more stuff has happened after ten years or so. I personally can’t remember all of our material…
Like Sonic Youth when they were asked to perform songs from their back catalogue and weren’t exactly sure how to tune or set the pedals anymore…
Right, I can’t remember all of our songs, I mean it’s a lifetime ago in some cases; I’m a whole different person now. Look at me…
You’ve been touring for an extensive amount of years. Tell me - I don’t know you personally and vice versa, but if we were to start a band tomorrow, with the intention of being million record sellers, would you know what to do?
I’ll tell you what, first of all, neither one us would be in the band.
I mean that in the following way: can you pinpoint what people want nowadays?
Pop music is popular because it’s familiar, people like records for the same reasons as always. I don’t think people have changed, if they’re familiar then they like it. If you stopped playing, hum…
Nickelback?
Yeah, if you stopped playing Nickelback, there’s no way they’d sell the amount of garbage they’re able to sell. Radio stations make it sell.
Plus, Nickelback’s got the classic frontman: the wounded junkie type, you know, things like MTV, radio and girls tend to pick up on. Same for Chris Cornell, Kurt Cobain, etc.; if they didn’t have a certain look, they wouldn’t have appealed to a certain audience, namely women. I mean women buy records with their crotches. They vote that way, they buy cars that way, etc. You could forget 99% of Nickelback’s female audience or Nirvana’s female audience out if Kurt looked like Wesley Willis or Fat Albert. [Ed's note: Pere Ubu's David Thomas had the same to say when he came to Pop Montreal a couple years ago, i.e. women go to concerts to escort their dudes. We get the point, because Celine Dion or Enrico Iglesias or whatever's fame is fueled by armies of aunts, but we still fucking beg to fucking differ. I mean, I was single as all hell when I saw Pere Ubu, and David Thomas does make Wesley Willis look like prince charming.]
Do you actually see yourself as being a whole lot different?
Yeah, most people are not like you and I in the sense that the average ‘listener’ is not a hype music journalist or a musician. I personally LIKE music. If the singer’s ugly that’s even better for me. But what appeals to me doesn’t seem to have major radio airplays. And what sells is what’s on the radio. Come on, pop music hasn’t changed at all; people are driven towards what’s familiar.
Would you (i.e. The Melvins) or our hypothetical million records seller band sell more records if we had massive airplays?
Most definitely, but you know what? That’s never gonna happen.
Would you turn down such opportunities?
Are you crazy? If someone wants to use The Melvins to sell their product, then that’s damn right fine with me. Actually, The Melvins’ music should be used to sell everything. That’s not selling out. There’s no such thing as selling out under those conditions. If Oscar Mayer Weiner wants to use my music to sell their products [namely hot dogs, baloney and bacon], then go for it! I’ll tell you what selling out is: selling out has nothing to do with that so called politically correct bullshit that musicians like to blanked themselves in. Selling out means to change your music in a way that fits certain standards in order to sell more records.
But if there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s not to count the money you don’t have. So yeah, we can dream of these opportunities, but it hasn’t happened and it’s never gonna happen. And look at us, we’re not million record sellers, we’re certainly not Nickelback and we’ve been doing what we do for years. We stay as current as possible, we’re not an oldies act, we’re vital, strong and that’s how it’s gonna stay, period. I grew up on punk rock and that’s what this music is all about. You can try to ‘sell out’, but chances are that you’re simply gonna fail miserably.
Well, while we’re on the topic of punk rock, I read in an interview you did for Prefix Mag, that DANZIG was pissed about you guys ripping off a shirt design that he himself had ripped off from a film. Wasn’t he also pissed off because The Dead Kennedys had a song called Halloween? Isn’t he turning into something like the Morrissey of metal?
Man, I think he’s got problems beyond what we can imagine. He did his best to sell out and it didn’t work out. I like a lot of the stuff he also likes: comics, gothic imagery, horror films etc, but I don’t think he’s interesting on a musical level. Actually, I never liked The Misfits.
Whaaaat? Are you out of your mind?
I never liked them musically speaking. I admired their look, but I always thought they were a weaker version of The Ramones. If you like The Ramones then there’s no point in listening to a diet version of it.
Did you ever get to see them live?
The Misfits? No, I wouldn’t have gone to see them.
They must be making a hell of a lot of money out of all the by-products and shits…
You think so?
Of course, I mean everybody has at least one Misfits t-shirt…
I bet you they don’t make that much money. Take away the cost of printing, the manager cut and all that garbage, if they make 300 000$ a year on shirts, which I assume they don’t, since I don’t believe they sell more than 2000 t-shirts per year in the States…
Man, believe me I’m sure they sell more than 2000 t-shirts.
Oh, you think so? How many kids in Montreal own a Misfits shirt? 150 or 200?
More than that.
Alright, but do these people buy one Misfits shirt every year? Anyways, If they make 300 000$ a year, take away the tax, the manager etc they’re lucky to make 20 000$ a year off those sales. Which is not THAT much money as compared to…
Metallica?
Right.
Yeah, but what about all the other crap that’s on the market?
Those are all boutiques items. They’re probably doing ok, but they’re not as rich as you’d think. They’re big on a boutique level, not on a mall level.
Just to segway into something else, since we’re arguing about punk rock and since you’re a respectable elderly citizen now, tell me, how many times did you see Black Flag live?
Five or six times, the last one was probably the worst though; they had a bad drummer, half assed compared to the previous ones. I think the Slip it in Tour and the My War Tour were amazing. That’s when they were at their zenith. I was never a huge Henry Rollins fan, but musically speaking I was hugely influenced by those shows they played. You know, people are just stupid, they keep telling us we’re influenced by Black Sabbath – which is not false in itself – but man, Black Flag has influenced us at least a billion times more than Sabbath. I have a lot of respect for Black Sabbath, we covered them etc, but Sabbath was just hippie music as compared to what we were trying to do.
The funniest thing is that we did a tour with Down and Phil Anselmo [Pantera] told us: ‘‘ you guys are more Black Flag than Sabbath’’ .
It had to come from Phil Anselmo…
Indeed.
You’ll shortly see where I’m going with all that punk rock drill I’m bugging you with, so tell me, were those Black Flag shows well attended?
No. Well, wait, what do you mean by that? ‘Cause, there were always less than 500 people. In fact, the biggest punk rock show I’ve seen was probably The Dead Kennedys and I’m talking of a crowd consisting of somewhere in between 800 and 1200 people. And maybe 1200 that’s pushing the limits. In Seattle, we (The Melvins) have neither the record sales nor the power to draw people from all around the state comparable to DK, but we can almost get almost equal that now with all the ‘‘technological advancements’’.
That’s where I was going; do you remember any of those local punk shows being empty? ‘Cause I’m just puzzled as to what the internet is supposed to bring to younger bands, I mean, you do – to some extent – get a name for yourself more easily, but people don’t tend to be more proactive as to getting out and going to see you live. 
Do they? You know, once in a while it’s like you throw red meat at hyenas: some band like Arcade Fire comes to town and out of a sudden you discover oh, wow, kids still love music?
I think it does. I’ll give you an example. We’re playing the Amphetamine Reptile showcase pretty soon. The guy who runs that record label puts the tickets online. Thus, he’s able to see with the credit cards, where the sales come from. Now, guess what? 60% is from outside the city. Try to do the same with local advertising and posters.
I think it’s easier for bands as far as being able to reach out to an audience. That being said, it is easier to tell people what I’m gonna do, but it’s harder to get them out nowadays.
What can you do then?
You know what they say; necessity is the mother of invention! You have to bring in the ‘‘human element’’ and think in terms of what the artist can give to the general public that the online element can’t provide them with.
That’s even more of a problem for arena rock bands who are limited in terms of interaction with their audience…
Well, we’re in an interesting period in history because those fuckers will have to swallow their ego and give the people what they can’t buy or download. Man, I don’t go to arena rock concerts, first of all because they always sound terrible, but mostly ‘cause it’s beyond proportions and it’s too easy. A lot of people want to make the most amount of money for the least effort. It won’t work forever, I tell you that.
We’re a working class band, we do make money here and there, but I couldn’t retire. That’s why if we’re offered money, we’re not in a position to turn it down, whereas some acts should simple get their shits together or disappear. But, let’s be realistic, those opportunities hardly come by for us. And in a sense, I’m still doing what I like best; I got into punk rock because it was intimate and genuine you know. I hardly go to shows when the maximum capacity is over 1500 people, which is still a fair amount of people.
The Melvins will be playing Club Soda Friday, Sept. 3rd (tix here) and then flying to Rouyn-Noranda on Saturday, Sept. 4th for the FME.
by Ralph Elawani / great dog pic by Aaron Farley
